Have earlier mentioned cooling fan and fuse problems on thos forum.
Have now bought a fan from a wrecker and installed it. Still blowing fuse in passanger complartment (currently using 25 amps instead of 15 amps).
I have connected a short wire accross the ral and a short wire at the switch which is mounted near the raditor and confirm that the fan works. It is somthing between the other side of the relay and the ignition which is the problem. I did expect to see a black earth wire to connection 85 on the relay but it was green and not connected to earth. Tride to earth this manually but still no good.
To really kill my day I turned off the ignition and removed the key and noticed that my headlights did not turn off. Had to disconnect the battery in the end.
Good grief. Would like to continue to resolve these two problems. I live in Norway and auto electricions, as is all labour here, really expensive.
Rover 214 1996 two electrical problems
That is an interesting fault with the headlamps. I'd suspect one or more faulty relays might be causing the problem. If you can find some spare ones (they are just normal automotive relays), I'd try swapping them and seeing if the fault goes away. Try removing the fan relay and replacing it with the fuel pump one to test it. (obviously the engine won't run if the fuel pump relay is missing).
Also check the earth connections as if they are loose or broken the car electrics get very upset.
If the fan works properly when directly connected to the battery then it is unlikely to be the fan causing the fuse to blow.
If you disconnect the ECU coolant temperature sensor the fan should run. If this is the case then the ECU tells the fan to switch on probably by switching the earth signal, which is why the relay 85 connection is connected to a green wire (+ve with igntion on) not a black one.
If it is a bubble shaped 200 then check the wiring in the rear boot hinge as this causes all sorts of electrical problems such as lights lighting when they shouldn't etc. It won't cause the fan problems but it might sort out the headlamp ones.
The only thing to cause a huge current draw through the fan could be a frayed or trapped wire so check the fan wiring from the fusebox to make sure it isn't chafed, frayed or trapped anywhere that could be causing it to short circuit.
Also check the earth connections as if they are loose or broken the car electrics get very upset.
If the fan works properly when directly connected to the battery then it is unlikely to be the fan causing the fuse to blow.
If you disconnect the ECU coolant temperature sensor the fan should run. If this is the case then the ECU tells the fan to switch on probably by switching the earth signal, which is why the relay 85 connection is connected to a green wire (+ve with igntion on) not a black one.
If it is a bubble shaped 200 then check the wiring in the rear boot hinge as this causes all sorts of electrical problems such as lights lighting when they shouldn't etc. It won't cause the fan problems but it might sort out the headlamp ones.
The only thing to cause a huge current draw through the fan could be a frayed or trapped wire so check the fan wiring from the fusebox to make sure it isn't chafed, frayed or trapped anywhere that could be causing it to short circuit.
Thank you very much for your reply.
Headlights
=======
I should mention that in Norway the headlights are wired such that they are on whenever the ignition is on (ie in daylight hours as well).
Can I have destroyed two headlamp relays at the same time?
Could I possible ask you where (exactly) the headlight relays are on 96 Rover 214si 1.4litre rover K engine hatchback?
I will check the rear hatch area as well as you suggest for frayed wiring.
Cooling
=====
RE "If you disconnect the ECU coolant temperature sensor the fan should run. If this is the case then the ECU tells the fan to switch on probably by switching the earth signal, which is why the relay 85 connection is connected to a green wire (+ve with igntion on) not a black one"
This is a little confusing for me. Is the Hayes manual incorrect (85 is not earthed as Hayes suggests) or is this something with Norway and lights on all the time. I did expect to see black wire connected to earth but will check this green for (+) as you suggest with my multimeter. Dont quite know how to trace the rest of the circut after this though as my Hayes wiring diagram in the manual is out of sync. Have the same gut feeling as you as there must be a frayed live wire after the fuse on what I call the triggering circut (minor circut) of the cooling fan.
May mention that I also expected the cooling fan relay to be the rear of the two yellow relays on the left side of the engine .. but in my case it was the other ....
The ECU coolant temperature sensor
========================
I am on holiday so cant check but is the ECU coolant temperature sensor the sensor just behind the cooling fan with two pink wires on. I am shorting these to simulate the switch being turned on for my testing.
Earth
====
Also, I am looking for the Earth connections on the car to check them for electrical integrity (E1 and E7 especially). I dont have my book here but I have not found the earth connection (and correspoing wires( that is supposed to be just behind the rear left headlight. Is it dead obvious to be able to see these or could they be hidden (under the fuse box for example). The earth connection (E1 I think from memory) has about 4 black wires on it and was easy to spot. Maybe E1 and E7 have merged?
I am not an autoelectrician .. and must admit am a little depressed with all the electrical problems with this recent purchase. Such as life.
Thanks again for your post.
Headlights
=======
I should mention that in Norway the headlights are wired such that they are on whenever the ignition is on (ie in daylight hours as well).
Can I have destroyed two headlamp relays at the same time?
Could I possible ask you where (exactly) the headlight relays are on 96 Rover 214si 1.4litre rover K engine hatchback?
I will check the rear hatch area as well as you suggest for frayed wiring.
Cooling
=====
RE "If you disconnect the ECU coolant temperature sensor the fan should run. If this is the case then the ECU tells the fan to switch on probably by switching the earth signal, which is why the relay 85 connection is connected to a green wire (+ve with igntion on) not a black one"
This is a little confusing for me. Is the Hayes manual incorrect (85 is not earthed as Hayes suggests) or is this something with Norway and lights on all the time. I did expect to see black wire connected to earth but will check this green for (+) as you suggest with my multimeter. Dont quite know how to trace the rest of the circut after this though as my Hayes wiring diagram in the manual is out of sync. Have the same gut feeling as you as there must be a frayed live wire after the fuse on what I call the triggering circut (minor circut) of the cooling fan.
May mention that I also expected the cooling fan relay to be the rear of the two yellow relays on the left side of the engine .. but in my case it was the other ....
The ECU coolant temperature sensor
========================
I am on holiday so cant check but is the ECU coolant temperature sensor the sensor just behind the cooling fan with two pink wires on. I am shorting these to simulate the switch being turned on for my testing.
Earth
====
Also, I am looking for the Earth connections on the car to check them for electrical integrity (E1 and E7 especially). I dont have my book here but I have not found the earth connection (and correspoing wires( that is supposed to be just behind the rear left headlight. Is it dead obvious to be able to see these or could they be hidden (under the fuse box for example). The earth connection (E1 I think from memory) has about 4 black wires on it and was easy to spot. Maybe E1 and E7 have merged?
I am not an autoelectrician .. and must admit am a little depressed with all the electrical problems with this recent purchase. Such as life.
Thanks again for your post.
Headlights
Ah I see. In that case I'd double check that the ignition relay is functioning correctly. It is just possible that the whole system is backfeeding through a faulty relay and this is causing the problem.
Cooling
I'll have to check for certain, as there are a couple of different systems on the K series rovers. I'm not sure which yours has.
On one they have a thermostatic switch in the radiator, which when the two wires are connected together will activate the fan.
On the other system there is no thermostatic switch. Instead the fans are controlled by the ECU via the coolant temperature sensor in the coolant rail that runs from the thermostat to the radiator, i.e. just below the distributor (where fitted). On these systems unplugging the coolant temperature sensor switches the fans on as a safety measure.
Earth
I'm not sure on the bubble shaped 200's but on the wedge 200's (as in the banner on this page), there is an earth strap which runs to the bonnet slam panel, (the one that runs across the car that the headlamps are mounted to). There is also several earths terminated below the fusebox, you have to remove it to see them. I'd guess the 200 bubble has a similar layout.
Have you measured the current drawn by the fan on its own when connected to the battery? I'd guess it is in the order of 10A or so.
Does the car have aircon fitted? I ask as activating the aircon will also activate the fans in most cases.
I'll try and have a good look through the wiring diagrams later to see if I can find anything useful
Don't fear thougn, I'm sure it is something simple that is causing the problems observed.
Ah I see. In that case I'd double check that the ignition relay is functioning correctly. It is just possible that the whole system is backfeeding through a faulty relay and this is causing the problem.
Cooling
I'll have to check for certain, as there are a couple of different systems on the K series rovers. I'm not sure which yours has.
On one they have a thermostatic switch in the radiator, which when the two wires are connected together will activate the fan.
On the other system there is no thermostatic switch. Instead the fans are controlled by the ECU via the coolant temperature sensor in the coolant rail that runs from the thermostat to the radiator, i.e. just below the distributor (where fitted). On these systems unplugging the coolant temperature sensor switches the fans on as a safety measure.
Earth
I'm not sure on the bubble shaped 200's but on the wedge 200's (as in the banner on this page), there is an earth strap which runs to the bonnet slam panel, (the one that runs across the car that the headlamps are mounted to). There is also several earths terminated below the fusebox, you have to remove it to see them. I'd guess the 200 bubble has a similar layout.
Have you measured the current drawn by the fan on its own when connected to the battery? I'd guess it is in the order of 10A or so.
Does the car have aircon fitted? I ask as activating the aircon will also activate the fans in most cases.
I'll try and have a good look through the wiring diagrams later to see if I can find anything useful
Don't fear thougn, I'm sure it is something simple that is causing the problems observed.
Headlights
Could you possibly tell me where the headlight relays are on a 214. As I am now on holiday in Poland buying car parts is cheaper than in Norway (where I live). Is there a part number I have to ask for...
Cooling
On my rover the switch is which started the cooling fan is not on the radiator. (Dont know what an ecu is sorry). The switch is behind the cooling fan in a silver pipe such that When I short the two terminals on this switch the circut is closed.
Earth
The earths are below the fusebox ??? wow. I will leave checking there earth connections for now. I now suspect that the electrical problems are in the cabin and not in the engine bay anyway.
"Have you measured the current drawn by the fan on its own when connected to the battery? I'd guess it is in the order of 10A or so. " Remember it is the triggering or minor circut that is the problem.
No, My multimeter has a max allowable of 10 amps .. and the circut is currently blowing a 25 amp fuse. I was hoping to spot the problem before buying more (better) equipment.
"Does the car have aircon fitted?"
Nope, electric heaters in the seats instead. It's cold here!
"Don't fear though"
My fear is really the cost of putting the car in for professional help in Oslo. I have just replaced the exhaust on the car and they asked for 9800 kroner (about 800 pounds - two pots and the cat 'while - you - wait') for that... and I asked for the cost of an oil change and filter from a garage (just asking) and they quoted 1000kr (approx 85 pounds). I did manage to get back to the car without collasping .. but it is very important to do as much as possible oneself here!!
Thanks for you reply
Could you possibly tell me where the headlight relays are on a 214. As I am now on holiday in Poland buying car parts is cheaper than in Norway (where I live). Is there a part number I have to ask for...
Cooling
On my rover the switch is which started the cooling fan is not on the radiator. (Dont know what an ecu is sorry). The switch is behind the cooling fan in a silver pipe such that When I short the two terminals on this switch the circut is closed.
Earth
The earths are below the fusebox ??? wow. I will leave checking there earth connections for now. I now suspect that the electrical problems are in the cabin and not in the engine bay anyway.
"Have you measured the current drawn by the fan on its own when connected to the battery? I'd guess it is in the order of 10A or so. " Remember it is the triggering or minor circut that is the problem.
No, My multimeter has a max allowable of 10 amps .. and the circut is currently blowing a 25 amp fuse. I was hoping to spot the problem before buying more (better) equipment.
"Does the car have aircon fitted?"
Nope, electric heaters in the seats instead. It's cold here!
"Don't fear though"
My fear is really the cost of putting the car in for professional help in Oslo. I have just replaced the exhaust on the car and they asked for 9800 kroner (about 800 pounds - two pots and the cat 'while - you - wait') for that... and I asked for the cost of an oil change and filter from a garage (just asking) and they quoted 1000kr (approx 85 pounds). I did manage to get back to the car without collasping .. but it is very important to do as much as possible oneself here!!
Thanks for you reply
problem with cooling fan blowing fuse in low amp circut of relay is now sorted.
The cooling fan was faulty. It drew too much current and was blowing the fuse .. but it still "worked". The previous owner had wired in a solution such that the thermo switch was bypassed and the fan otherwise connected directly to the battery such that the car could be driven.
When the new fan was installed the fuse still blew. THis was due to the thermo switch was not in the circut. The thermo swithch actually has a resistance at all times. Low resistence at high temp and high resistence at low temp. when the thermo switch was shorted by the previous owner this meant there was nothing to limit the ampereage in the lowvoltage cooling fan circut.
When the thermo switch was wired back in the system worked fine
The cooling fan was faulty. It drew too much current and was blowing the fuse .. but it still "worked". The previous owner had wired in a solution such that the thermo switch was bypassed and the fan otherwise connected directly to the battery such that the car could be driven.
When the new fan was installed the fuse still blew. THis was due to the thermo switch was not in the circut. The thermo swithch actually has a resistance at all times. Low resistence at high temp and high resistence at low temp. when the thermo switch was shorted by the previous owner this meant there was nothing to limit the ampereage in the lowvoltage cooling fan circut.
When the thermo switch was wired back in the system worked fine
