[Dorchester]

As you may know that following some wise advice from here I'd ordered on the 12th of May last from DMGRS 2 bonnet gas struts lifter kits for both my 241 cabby & my missus 25: £33.33 each and an already meaty shipping price for France of £28.49 for a 1.5 kg parcel full weight.

And guess what I've just received 2 days ago from FedEx: an appalling & eye-watering additional custom charge of 28.56€ (£24.13). Nearly as much as the shipping expenses which weren't paltry, it's an understatement.

It's shocking to say the least that when we are ordering anywhere in the world the final price all inclusive might not be mentioned. It looks there is a recurring and randomly problem when trading with Britain, because it isn't always the case, some parcel coming home without any hidden and deceptive surprise. No such burden when ordering elsewhere in the world out of the European Community.

It looks it depends on the seller and on the carrier together, the latter not following the same rules (Royal Mail, FedEx, UPS, GLS, DPD, you name it) and it depends as well on the custom form the seller is filling, it may vary significantly according to the box ticked. For example Rimmerbros now since the 1st of January or thereabouts has added a line with that tax quotation at the bottom of the order so that the consumer is no longer exposed at the mercy of huge backstage and unexpected costs.

Never ever when ordering at DMGRS I'd been warned that such a charge should apply besides without the slightest information about its precise cost. That shouldn't be in any trade and by any commercial law. I should have been informed before ordering in the same way as I'm informed about the shipping price, because the seller should ask for every information from the international carrier. It's not the buyer responsibility to choose the carrier, but the seller and I'm not sure the most competitive is chosen each time.

With great sadness I should add that I and many others of faithful consumers since years we should rethink now where we can find out our supply for our prides & joys. Mainly in the present context we cannot afford any longer such high additional charges at such scales when ordering in Britain.

I would be very interested in hearing from other overseas customers: how does that go here & there?

Anyway I've sent yesterday an E-Mail to Mat: I hope I'll get some help & explanation.

[JOHNDQ]

Surely you must have known about this, it's been made to us 100-percent clear that when we order parts from Europe since we are no longer in the EU but we will get a customs charge so can't imagine European customers to Britain wouldn't have been made aware

[StubbornPatriot]

So, you have paid and additional 25% [24.13/(66.66+28.49)] to import the goods. From what I've just read, that's better than it could have been. French import duty is in the range 0-22% on purchases totalling over 150€ and french VAT is 20%. However, you haven't been charged UK VAT for the products (saving £13.32) - I'm not sure about UK VAT on the shipping. You seem to have been charged just french VAT but at 25% when it should have been 20% (I think). Unless the 5% difference is the import duty for this type of product and the 150€ rule has not been applied? So, overall, it's cost you £10.81 more in this case.

You do need to find out what the import tax rates are for the taxation classes that car parts come under and clarify the 150€ rule.

I can see this is a pain for you, with your Rovers in particular, but it's the same for any UK resident ordering from anywhere else in the world. We have to take the hit on import duty and VAT. Sorry, it's just the way of the world.

I would expect that the only thing DMGRS could possibly do about it is find a cheaper courier.

[Roverlike]

Seems that for some reason people do forget the correct cost formula:

1. Item price cost UK VAT excluded.
2. Shipment cost
3. VAT in destination country (plus customs cost if applies)
4. Administration cost of the company who makes taxasion and custom duties

Points 1. and 2. are paid when purchasing goods. Points 3. and 4. are paid on side of customer and ARE customer responsibility.

Before brexit it was easier for EU customers because all what was there was:

1. Item price cost including UK VAT
2. Shipment cost

The only difference between companies is weather company have enough staff to take upon them administration duties of taxation (and customs) regarding on country to which goods are exported, but in that case that will reflect on goods price since it has to compensate for work done on your part from the seller.

Difference in price in regard to previuos situation is within difference in VAT from UK to buyer resident country and administartion costs from company who is providing administration tasks.

[Dorchester]

I think I wasn't clear enough in my previous post and mainly I didn't tell you the whole affair. See below.

I fully agree with you JOHNDQ: I'm neither simple-minded nor newbie (I'm 69!), I do know indeed that taxes apply, i.e. the British VAT I do not pay any more is replaced by our 20% French TVA. Fair enough. These are the law and the common rules that apply in either way, I don't dispute that.

I'm just bemoaning that the whole calculation couldn't be made so far when ordering: if even for me the VAT/TVA cannot come as a surprise, why is it so difficult to be done from the very beginning by professional traders & carriers once for all and - above all - in the same way between all traders and all customers? It would be clearer, simpler and fairer.

I wish it could be as simple as you tell us Roverlike, but unfortunately it isn't as you may see.
When I order from the States or from China, all is told, agreed and done when ordering: why can't it be done in the same way between Britain & the EU?

But you don't know the whole truth about my bill.
Here is now the more farcical & absurd bit of the story.

As you can see on the recto verso paper filled by Mat, both kits (total units: 2) put in one unique parcel (No. of Packages: 1) are weighing 1.12 kg bare and 1.5 kg once wrapped (total gross weight).
How on earth could the parcel is now weighing 3.2 kg (poids facturé: 3,20 kg) once arrived in France???

Do you want another weird discrepancy? Here it is.

The value of both kits is £66.66 (invoice total) without VAT (I guess), i.e. 78.73€ (0.8467 currency when it was calculated).
I was taught that 20% TVA apply on the goods, fair enough: then 20% of 78.73€ gives me 15.74€.

Surprise! FedEx has applied the TVA on the base of 104€ which gives 21€!!!
Where do those 104€ are coming from? From the goods? Surely not. From the goods plus the shipping price (which is never mentioned in any of the 3 sheets!)? Neither. The shipping price was as I've told you £28.49 i.e. 33.65€. 78.73€ + 33.65€ give 112.38€! and nowhere I've seen that TVA should apply a second time on the shipping price paid in the first place by DMGRS.
Hence they ask for 21€ of TVA, instead of the expected 15.74€, not mentioning the obscure 6€ + 1.26€ (TVA once more) of 'frais de dossier' (papers expense, surely to forge false calculations...) which adds furthermore at the bottom of the sheet, so 28.56€ (£24.21)

Do you really think all that process and its preposterous result are clear, simple, fair and honest?
I'd always thought that accountant calculations should be correct up to the last penny... You may be right: I'm surely single-minded...

Nowadays trade isn't as simple and obvious as you had thought in the first place, is it?
I'm not that greedy: it's just a question of justice and principle, and above all I don't want to hurt any of you.
But now restoring our underrated Rovers may become a luxury business... It's heart-breaking...

[Dorchester]

Here are FedEx papers:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_1aSry ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zWhhrW ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gyuQDR ... sp=sharing

[Roverlike]

In Croatia rules for goods from USA, China and any other country including UK are the same. I do think that same rules apply in France under same EU schema.

You are paying VAT/TVA/PDV on the price of goods plus/including postal price (carriage price). If carriage price is declared to be free (means total price of goods includes postal price, then it has to be declared as such)

As I can see from your papers you actualy paid less then you sholud.

Invoice from DMGRS is on £66.66. That invoice does not include postage price, so administration in France enlarged that amount for the amount of postal price which is usualy taken for the goods up to 3.2 kg. So they calculated additional 25 EUR for "freit cargo cost" which is stated on your papers under topic number 44.

So amount on which you need to pay for the TVA is £66.66/0.8467=78.729 EUR + 25 EUR = 103.729 EUR

Administration takes as its privilige to round the number to greater one so that equals 104 EUR.

So in papers I see that you paid 20% TVA on 104 which equals 21 EUR plus 6.30 EUR administration duties.

[Dorchester]

That's I was saying mate: all those calculations I wasn't aware of before Brexit are giving me headache...
And every bit sneakily added to the cost like - for example - those preposterous 'frais de dossier' (7.56€) are yet increasing the bill.
No surprise if everybody is seeing a dramatic inflation which is growing on and on and that we customers we are seen as perfect patsy.
Methinks not everybody is loosing in that bl...ed game...

BTW Mat who very kindly answered my E-Mail gave me another way of calculating that weird weigh that from 1.5 kg surprisingly became 3.2 kg, just to add another bit to my confusion:

'The weight issue is something called 'volumetric weight' - if a parcel is larger than average but very light, the courier companies apply a 'volumetric weight charge' to the parcel instead of the true weight of the items inside.
This is because the primary limitation on shipping goods is the volume of the parcel, not the weight of the parcel - larger, light-weight boxes take up a lot more room in transportation so they will adjust the weight of the parcel based on this.
There is a volumetric weight calculator here which will show you the effect: https://www.parcelhero.com/en-gb/suppor ... calculator
The parcel I believe these will have been sent in measures 46 x 31 x 9cm, which is a volumetric weight of 3.21KG with the calculator above.'

But why did you say 'As I can see from your papers you actually paid less then you should'?
If I've understood your explanation, in the end you actually lead to what appears a right result: 'So amount on which you need to pay for the TVA is £66.66/0.8467=78.729 EUR + 25 EUR = 103.729 EUR', and that is actually the explanation of that weird 104€.

Anyway I'm not an accountant head as it looks and what I understand is that consumer is fully subjected to opaque calculations not made to be easily understood and in everybody interest but for the sake of some happy few who are reaping their benefits of those nasty tricks because of an intensive lobbying in Bruxelles, I mean carriers and eventually bureaucrats. I may understand better why Brits were willing to get free out of all that bureaucracy.

[Roverlike]

I said that you paid less because you paid TVA on postage cost equals 25 EUR, while your pistage cost was £28.49. So on count for TVA you would pay more if postage cost would be written on invoice from DMGRS.

In regard to administration I have nothing new. If we are part of EU or not same rules apply to any imported goods from other countrues otside of EU. So I do not see any benefit being ourside EU.

I will not go into another debate on this topic as it may go into undesired way.

I am servicing my Rovers from 2000. So until 2013 I was under same situation for parts as I am now. I gained some benefit from 2013 until 2020 and I am back to where I was before 2013.

[RobsonRoverRepair]

Could be worse. You could be in Northern Ireland part of the UK and get hit for this stuff all the time.