Having problems with your club car? This is the place for asking advice and help on technical problems. Resident experts will be on hand to help you keep your car in tip top condition
new2rover wrote:I am going to glue back using a bead of silicone and stick back headlight glass cover/lense, though it has a cracked in two, and I used super glue to join it together, I will need a new one at some stage, as I am sure this may be MOT fail if the front glass is cracked. I will check my local breakers if I can get from there, if not I will need to post for one in wanted section.
Headlamps are quite commonly listed on eBay, some are even NoS for reasonable sums. Quite heavy for posting though. I went to get a pair from a scrappy earlier this year. The o/s one's glass fell off while I was spannering. The n/s one waited till I got home in the dark and shattered into sugar-grain fragments.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I am back again with the same problem.
Just for no reason, the door won't lock even with the door key, ( Edited : well it actually never did, but I forgot as I always used remote to unlock and lock, the driver's door mechanism has some fault but it has not stopped locking or unlocking with remote, and fortunately with the door key I can open the lock but cannot lock it up, but this was not an issue and didn't bother me as I always used the remote)
keyfob only operated the alarm immobiliser function. (Edited: No I was mistaken key fob did operate central locking as well as setting and disarming alarm and immobiliser, my bad! (my memory does let me down often))
I have tried everything I did last time, and this time no joy. (Edited: This time no joy because last time I might have been lucky when the broken wire must have made a momentary contact and allowed me to re-sync the key fob after battery went flat, but this time more wires had broken completely such that they failed to make even an intermittent contact in the loom)
It seems that my central locking may have something to do with it, ( Edited: and of course central locking motor operates from the 5as Alarm module, but this module first needs to know what to do, either by remote fob or by door key switch, so when you use door key switch it operates two different switches, first switch tells the 5as that a key is being used (manual opening of door and not by fremote fob) and then as you turn the key further it unlocks or locks the door locking mechanism, in turn this also operates a second switch that tells the 5as alarm module what is being required, so it then sends appropriate voltage to the locking or unlocking motors, for other 3 doors as well as it aids the turning of your key in the door so you would now need less effort as the driver's door locking motor adds some force to your turning the key as well) this second switch that tells the alarm module to unlock or unlock depends on which way you turned your key switch in the door, all now in a clear picture)
I have checked all fuses, they are all OK, I done this 3 times checking just in case I missed something.
So now I am getting desperate and my last resort is can I disable immobiliser function, if so is alarm part of the ECU which I found (ECU) held on the passenger footwell covered by a metal plate bolted on. (Edit: Although I have not gone as far as checking if the ECU depends on any security code from the 5as module, I believe it is not the case, however instead of a security code, it does require some other logic states such as a continuous stream of square wave pulses at 250Hz, this I have confirmed leaving the 5as module when ignition is on and alarm off, immobiliser off, and someone else who worked for Rover for over 20years also told me the ECU on this car with Honda Engine is not security code sensitive, so in all one could have bypassed it if there was no other way out of this immobilised engine)
There is a window and I can see the PCB through it and a small LED which by the time I uncovered it, I had already removed my battery from the car to recharge on my bench charger. (Edited yes a red led in the window flashes when ignition is truned on, regardless even if the car is still immobilised)
I had to disconnect my horn again as it was getting nuisance, ( Edit: In Emergency, horn can be stopped by taking out a 30A fuse in the engine bay assigned for Central locking and horn, but this also means your CL won't work) so practically I cannot disarm my alarm from the buttons, whether it has anything to do with the driver's door lock, (Edit: indeed it has everything to do with lock mechanism functioning good, with switches functioning good and wiring harness in good state)
(let me take a few steps at a time as I don't want to overburden you guys with information) Thanks in anticipation for your help. - main thing is can the immobiliser be bypassed? if so how and where from?
Last edited by new2rover on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:26 pm, edited 5 times in total.
220 GSi turbo wrote:The key barrel microswitch is there to tell the system that the key has been used to unlock the door (as opposed to somebody smashing the window and lifting the lock button)
The driver's locking motor itself will send a signal to the system to tell it whether it has done a 'lock' or 'unlock' : that's how the EKA code gets entered and of course how the other doors know when to lock or unlock. So, with that part of your car no longer functioning, an EKA code will not be a lot of good to you.
It would be worth carefully checking all of the wiring to the central locking in the driver's door and also the multiplug where the door plugs into the car wiring loom (remove the rubber boot where the wiring passes into the door from the A-post)
The horns are mounted below each headlamp, so it might be easier to pull the horn fuse.
Good luck......
Oh, and
This post was very useful and i am going through all posts again, thanks for all your help and i am beginning to get a feeling that a wire must have snapped fully this time and so not controlling CL motor that in turn mobilises alarm as well as open or close other 3 doors.
So after all i may not have to bypass ECU.
If you disconnect the battery, all four doors should lock by mechanical means? that at least will secure the vehicle.
Certainly on my 1.6 K reg' the drivers door can be locked without the key, by holding the door latch out [from the outside] while pressing the inside tab down. Shutting the door while still holding the external latch up, locks the door without the key.
The central locking issue sounds like a continuity problem.
I'm confused as to why you call the car a 214, when it's obviously a 216 ? has somebody fitted a salvage rear hatch at some point from a 214?
First and foremost, you are right it is a Rover 216 Sli auto 4 door hatchback/ or is it a coupe I am not sure.
Now as for the Alarm Problem, I just got it sorted out, after much playing with it, my understanding of electronics helped me crack the problem.
just in case others may have similar issues, I might as well share knowledge and experience gained during my ordeal.
First of all it is important to understand the concept of door locking and alarm setting on this particular model. So after much time spent on doing this doing that, looking into haynes manual, which does not cover anything about Alarm or Immobiliser but it does cover central door locking.
So my problem began with my driver's door getting worst by the day mechanically, it would only open with the door key if the fob did not unlock, and I am not sure if it ever opened properly from day one, I always had some sort of problem with it, but most of the time I opened it with keyfob buttons. But since I acquired it, I had always had locking and unlocking problem and end up using door lock key. luckily this also disables the immobiliser. But not when there is a problem.
So what happened this time, my door unlocked as usual, I drove the car to my work, all was well and when I got back home, when it would not lock, so tried locking it with the key and the door lock mechanism appear to be stuck, or jammed, the so whilst all other 3 doors locked up the drivers door wouldn't using the remote.
So I left it like that until next day, the red Alarm light was flashing meaning the alarm was active or armed, so i opened the door as it was not locked and the key fob did not respond to disarming alarm when I pressed the dimpled button, so i opened the driver's door and the alarm went off, and after it stopped 20 seconds of so, I tried to start car and it wouldn't, so i tried to lock and unlock from fob buttons, but nothing, no response, the light blinked on off (alarm light) sounder (horn) started to sound again.
So I had to start all over trying to figure out what went wrong this time, I tested batteries in my remote, they are OK,
so it was back to drawing board, had to disconnect annoying alarm going off, I took its front driver's side headlight out, to disconnected the horn.
Then for 3 to 4 days I tried everything, and nothing worked, trying to sync the fob and what not, because my door mechanism had gone sticky or jammed, i guess no amount of turning keys in the drivers door doing anything.
So back to drawing board and looked deeper into haynes Manual, studied how CL works, traced wiring colours and checked driver's door motor, but it works, the motor itself is not jammed, and it locks the door and unlocks it as well when i reverse the 12v across motor terminals, it is something else jammed that uses the door key and so now the key feels like there is a resistance, if I were to force it hard it may break.
So studying haynes manual, I realised the principle behind locking and unlocking, and this is how I managed to just get it started.
THE PRINCIPLE: ( when everything is Ok and all mechanisms are fully operational and not jammed or stuck)
Door keylock when turned by the key drives a small micro switch that has two wires on it, so basically it makes or breaks contacts. Though this is not shown in Haynes manual, as they only show central locking and absolutely nothing about Alarm or Immobiliser.
This microswitch contacts must then somehow, summon Central Locking to operate, so now as my drivers door mechanism is stuck, even the manual locking button won't move in locking or unlocking position, ( luckily it was stuck in unlock position.) so it is the driver's door central locking motor that operates another 2nd microswitch that further disables the Alarm immobiliser and opens all CL on other 3 doors.
So as my mechanism is stuck, I figured out the 3 wires connected to the CL 2nd microswitch (not the door lock microswitch), remember there are two switches here. So I took a 12v relay, soldered 3 wires to its contacts, wired NC, C, NO relay contacts to door loom, having disconnected it from the 2nd microswitch of the locking mechanism, and then I arranged the relay coil wires such that it went to the key locking 1st microswitch, when this key lock microswitch contacts are open, there is a 12v across it, but this cannot supply enough current to operate the relay, so I figured out which of these two wires is a ground wire and which is a +12v, I then using a 1 amp fuse got a wire from a proper +12v source from some other wiring point within the car, or you can even connect it to battery +ve, but I did not want to risk opening the bonnet in case the alarm goes off into some insane mode and so I used a +12v from radio live, I then tapped this wire to relay coil, this in turn brought on the relay and contacts changed over as if they were being changed over by door mechanism, this in turn started to operate all 3 door Central locking, and now I could open and close locks on all 3 other doors, except the rivers door as the driver's door mechanism is stuck and connector disconnected from it.
The Red Alarm light was flashing during all this time whilst I sat inside the drivers seat and door was shut, so when i flashed the relay, the red LED started to flash and whilst it was flashing I synchronised my fob by pressing it 4 times, and I then heard a very brief noise like doors CL partially trying to unlock or lock, and the red light went off completely, so finally I tried to start the engine and it burst into life.
So now I am able to drive my car, only that I cannot lock the drivers door and I won't try to take a chance to press any buttons on the fob until I can get a drivers door locking mechanism. I hope I can get one from somewhere, i will look on ebay, or if anyone here has a spare one let me please know. many thanks
CONCLUSION
So basically I simulated the driver's door mechanism to disable alarm and immobiliser, and so kind of fooled the alarm module into thinking everything is normal, and as if I am using my door key to unlock the car, using a relay ensures that all logical conditions occur in timely synchronised manner and and in direct response to key operated microswitch, when i tried using a jump wire from one contact to another on the wiring loom without a relay, it was not achieving results though on occasions I got the buttons to move from locking to unlocking but it was very erratic and I could not deceive the alarm to disable without the relay. So a bit involved but I am pretty happy and otherwise I had asked a local car alarm company to see if they could sort it out for me, and how much it may cost me, the guy could not give me a specific cost but said anything between £50 to £100, with minimum call out charge of £35.00 if he fails to disable.
When I get some time I will draw a circuit how the two microswitches are wired and what colour wires are used and how and where I connected the relay and how I applied a +12v as well as keeping both wires of the first microswitch still connected to the relay whilst flashing it with a +12v, I was rather cautious in case the alarm module may not like forcing 12v down its input, so i also used a current limit resistor of 200 ohms.
Last edited by new2rover on Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
You might well find yours just needs greasing, once you get it out of course. Worst time of year for fiddly stuff in dark confined spaces with cold numb fingers!
Very sadly, I had managed to demobilise my car and all was well, until I got its driver's door lock mechanism sorted out as it had stuck in open position, then I was meant to remove the battery from my keyfob in case I pressed one of the buttons and it might spring back into immobilised mode, lock all 4 doors, and then it may not open again, that is what happened, I accidently pressed on locking button (dimpled button) and car central locks popped down, alarm light came back on, and then there after it would not disable or unlock, I tried my relay solution, again relay responded to central locking popping locks up or down, but the key would not disarm or learn or resync any more, so i am back to square one , car has been standing still and unable to drive, i spent so much more time tracing wiring.
So that leaves me with a few options now, either my 5as module is faulty, or has intermittent problem hence why my alarm problem has been plaguing me since I bought the car, the previous owner said he did get this problem but wasn't this bad as I have been getting, I am not sure if reprogramming may help as I have been got in touch with someone reccomended by John who can reprogramme it for me, but I don't want a situation where it loses again, and I am back to square one, that is if the chip keeps losing its sync.
So i may have to go and buy a whole ecu and 5as module with a keyfob. many are being sold on fleabay at reasonable cost. It is worth keeping this car on the road as I have just spent over £300 on a new head gasket, so not ready for scrap or breaking up.
